Judi Hays from The Conversion Company Shares Insights into Marketing Agencies on Agency Connect

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Judi Hays from The Conversion Company joined us at the Agency Connect podcast.

“You need 3 legs of the stool: Elevate (dress for the party/success), Expand (people to invite for the party to network), Engage (The food that’s served. People talk and get to know each other. These 3 parts really make the experience beneficial for building high trust.”

Check out more of the value bombs shared by Judi in this episode!

Thank you Judi Hays from The Conversion Company for your candid and honest story at another Agency Connect podcast.

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00:00:05.120 –> 00:00:10.160
welcome back to another agency connect 101 
we have judy hayes here who has written  

00:00:10.160 –> 00:00:14.640
the book on linkedin strategy i’m very excited 
to have you here i’m senior shaw president of  

00:00:14.640 –> 00:00:19.360
cloud software association and ceo of appbind 
i’m all about getting that digital under control  

00:00:19.360 –> 00:00:24.240
so your agency gets under control judy has 
figured it out after many years of consulting  

00:00:24.240 –> 00:00:28.160
how to do it right and you know you can tell 
tell us all about your book and yourself judy  

00:00:28.160 –> 00:00:32.400
uh you’re one of the like the experts oh my gosh 
yeah i didn’t put me on a pedestal there’s yes  

00:00:34.080 –> 00:00:38.880
well you know and and i appreciate this 
opportunity and we met online so one of these  

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days we’ll meet in the flash uh irl as we say um 
yeah i you know it’s funny working with a platform  

00:00:45.520 –> 00:00:51.360
like linkedin it’s i started out in marketing and 
then i got into digital and then i got into social  

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and then i just really honed in on 
linkedin because it it really is the  

00:00:55.120 –> 00:01:02.480
the definitive b2b platform but the challenge is 
that trying to uh help others really embrace the  

00:01:02.480 –> 00:01:06.480
platform because there’s so many people that that 
know they need to use it but they don’t know what  

00:01:06.480 –> 00:01:10.960
the heck to do you know and you may just see a 
couple of players on linkedin that are really  

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crushing it but then there’s others like oh yeah i 
need to be on linkedin and then you look at their  

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profile and they’ve got like their picture from 
20 years ago or you know something like that so  

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um what i did was i put together my methodology 
in a book and it’s it’s hopefully a quick read  

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but basically it’s built on three principles 
and they all work together okay so if you can  

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imagine you you put your bum on a stool right 
the stool’s got three legs it needs these  

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three legs to function as a stool otherwise 
you’re going to you know falling backwards  

00:01:39.440 –> 00:01:45.760
um the first one and if i’m talking too fast tell 
me okay because i have a lot of coffee um but  

00:01:45.760 –> 00:01:51.760
the first one i is called elevate and elevate is 
really the premise of of dressing up for the party  

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i want to elevate your brand i want to elevate 
your presence i want to elevate your experience  

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okay so when you when you look at how you’re 
presenting yourself that’s the first component the  

00:02:02.800 –> 00:02:07.840
second component is expand and expand is really 
where now that you’re dressed for this party  

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you’re going to have um people that you’re going 
to invite to the party so how do you how do you  

00:02:14.560 –> 00:02:18.880
find these people how do you network with people 
have you looked at your existing network there’s  

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so many great things in your existing network i’d 
say probably a majority of my clients have closed  

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a deal just engaging with their existing network 
powerful and the third part of the equation  

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is engage so again if we’re back to the 
virtual event engage is the food that’s  

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served so you’ve got the people there you’re all 
dressed up and now you got the food and the wine  

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and i’ll just give you a shout out to near you’re 
the one that sent that wonderful open bar as a  

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service when we didn’t go virtual the engagement 
part is where people get loose and they talk and  

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they have fun and they get to know each other and 
that’s the part that not everyone has the comfort  

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level to do it on linkedin you know so again it’s 
those three parts that really make the experience  

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beneficial so what i do with the companies that i 
work with and i work exclusively in the b2b space  

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mainly for professional service companies that are 
selling a high ticket okay so it’s at least five  

00:03:12.960 –> 00:03:19.600
figures six figures plus high trust professional 
service okay so it could be a technology like a  

00:03:19.600 –> 00:03:24.960
transportation management technology it could be a 
physical security surveillance system it could be  

00:03:25.760 –> 00:03:33.440
all kinds of things you know that fit into that 
cpa platform so we use linkedin not to sell  

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contrary to what i just said we use it to to find 
because again it’s it’s a robust database really  

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robust if you know how to do boolean strings 
and things like that you can make that platform  

00:03:45.440 –> 00:03:52.560
sing so we use it to find our ideal prospects 
and then we look for signals to engage with them  

00:03:52.560 –> 00:03:57.280
so you know we we have the elevate because we’ve 
dressed up you know so we’re meeting these people  

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and now we’re looking to expand we’re bringing 
them into our network and now we’re engaging with  

00:04:01.280 –> 00:04:06.480
them so is that more than you ever want to know 
about linkedin i want to know more leave please  

00:04:06.480 –> 00:04:11.680
there’s so much i want to know first where’s the 
book you have two copies behind you flog your book  

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oh my gosh yeah well it’s kind of a funny story 
i just got my delivery on these things i came  

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out november 18th and uh for various supply chain 
issues um i just got the boxes but the book is on  

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amazon and it’s a you can get it in kindle or you 
can get it in this nice handy it’s a 200 page book  

00:04:27.200 –> 00:04:31.760
and i actually marked up my own book um you know 
because that’s what i’m going to mark things up  

00:04:31.760 –> 00:04:38.720
so it’s called elevate expand someone who started 
in this industry when i was 16 in the publishing  

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industry you hurt my soul because all the yeah 
because i you’re supposed to flog your book oh  

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you know and here’s the funny thing this is the 
this is the part that blows people’s mind when  

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i’m working on their linkedin profile they want 
to talk about themselves but it’s me and i’m  

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wonderful and i did this and i went here and i’ve 
got all these degrees and it’s like you know what  

00:04:59.520 –> 00:05:02.320
you’re talking about me yeah i’m more 
interested i don’t talk about myself  

00:05:03.120 –> 00:05:07.200
i don’t i want to hear about you exactly when i 
meet someone for the first time and they say hey  

00:05:07.200 –> 00:05:12.240
judy what do you do i said i could talk all day i 
wonder why i might be interviewing people you know  

00:05:12.240 –> 00:05:18.880
my my evil plan to talk about app bind in the on 
the after show credit you know podcast to sell hey  

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this is where you know where we are cultivating 
seeds here so here cause i know one day i’m going  

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to hunt you down and find you and you know we’re 
going to meet it’s like oh my gosh and there’ll be  

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hugs and they’ll be laughing they’ll be like let’s 
be clear that’s my brand open bar as a service

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no i mean this is what it’s about like i you 
know why we why are we why did i reach out to  

00:05:40.960 –> 00:05:44.320
you because yes i have something to flog why 
else would i be doing work otherwise would  

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be other things to do but the story that you are 
telling is a story that i’m working on and you’re  

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working on and other people who are way behind 
us or you know anxious worried they need to hear  

00:05:57.520 –> 00:06:02.720
how you solved it so let’s let’s talk a little 
bit before we get into like the linkedin stuff  

00:06:02.720 –> 00:06:07.440
because that’s really more interesting before 
forward doing you you before you wrote a book  

00:06:07.440 –> 00:06:12.640
you’re you were a consultant and i think you’re 
still doing inbound pipeline management consulting  

00:06:12.640 –> 00:06:17.600
yeah i’ve always been in marketing i started out 
a hundred years ago before you were even born at  

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uh an agency called rap collins new york city it’s 
a direct response agency and um i learned direct  

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response marketing which is was the stepchild 
or the the great grandchild of today’s digital  

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target marketing right so i’ve always been in 
marketing i’ve just worked in a lot of different  

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verticals and a lot of different sides client-side 
agency side vendor side you know i’ve tried them  

00:06:40.960 –> 00:06:45.360
all and uh and wound up realizing that 
i’m genetically unemployable and so i  

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work for myself so it’s the best my bosses who i’m 
accountable to besides my two dogs are my clients  

00:06:53.280 –> 00:06:59.360
they’re my bosses that’s who i am accountable to 
and and it’s a great thing and um you know what i  

00:06:59.360 –> 00:07:04.880
was saying to you earlier is i don’t bill hourly 
or sell you know by the hour i said well this is  

00:07:04.880 –> 00:07:10.000
the trap this is what this whole thing’s about 
like the thing that keeps happening is that when  

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you’re an agency you’re you start by selling time 
for money if you’re smart you’re not going to sell  

00:07:14.640 –> 00:07:20.400
time for money because like i said earlier um if 
you sell time for money what happens is the better  

00:07:20.400 –> 00:07:26.720
and smarter you get the less you make if i 
trade you 100 an hour and now it only takes  

00:07:26.720 –> 00:07:31.840
me 30 minutes i’m only going to be able to build 
you 50 bucks but if i sold you an outcome that i  

00:07:31.840 –> 00:07:38.880
will produce this product for a hundred dollars it 
takes me 10 minutes i still get 100 bucks but i do  

00:07:38.880 –> 00:07:46.560
track time i do use an app to track time because 
i want to know if i am profitable if i am  

00:07:46.560 –> 00:07:51.680
allocating enough resources to a particular 
client or if a client is taking more resources  

00:07:51.680 –> 00:07:55.600
so the thing that you know i was a drucker 
that said it you know you can’t you can’t  

00:07:55.600 –> 00:08:00.960
manage what you don’t measure so i think it’s 
really important to have that data but i don’t  

00:08:00.960 –> 00:08:05.840
bill on that but i do use that when i’m writing a 
proposal or something and kind of scoping the work  

00:08:05.840 –> 00:08:10.240
that helps me understand yep this is where this 
is going to go or oops should have done that  

00:08:10.240 –> 00:08:15.600
so i do recommend that to people is do understand 
the two bobs podcast is where i learned that one  

00:08:15.600 –> 00:08:19.840
okay here’s here’s the thing so i’m evolving my 
questions getting sharper here with the podcast  

00:08:19.840 –> 00:08:25.440
the issue is that i have seen over my career 
i started off in license software where we  

00:08:25.440 –> 00:08:29.280
weren’t selling time we were selling outcomes 
we were building systems computers networking  

00:08:29.280 –> 00:08:33.360
windows licenses sdk as i build the system then we 
maintain it for three years and of course it’s a  

00:08:33.360 –> 00:08:37.840
10-year client because we keep extending and that 
is you know how commercial plumbers work you know  

00:08:37.840 –> 00:08:42.720
every normal industry works that way and then when 
i was at freshbooks and marketing i saw everyone  

00:08:42.720 –> 00:08:48.000
on subscriptions lose all of that and they were 
trading time again for outcomes even though we  

00:08:48.000 –> 00:08:54.160
kept telling value-based pricing whatever and the 
question i have that we want to explore with this  

00:08:54.160 –> 00:08:59.920
is because digital subscriptions has basically 
made you give me so many agencies give up their  

00:08:59.920 –> 00:09:04.640
control over what they’re making and the outcomes 
to other people they end up back on the hamster  

00:09:04.640 –> 00:09:10.320
treadmill trading time for money and that is 
really painful right and you know yes now i have  

00:09:10.320 –> 00:09:15.760
app buying which is my product to solve part of 
that problem with managed services yay gave for me  

00:09:15.760 –> 00:09:21.120
but what is this there’s so many solutions that 
give people leverage you’ve just written a book  

00:09:21.120 –> 00:09:26.320
right you have some narrow down your services yeah 
i think you found a lot of leverage in what you’re  

00:09:26.320 –> 00:09:30.480
doing so i mean you’re focused and you wrote a 
book and on link you focus on linkedin you wrote a  

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book and you have a pipeline what is you would say 
is your leverage in order to get the most outcome  

00:09:36.800 –> 00:09:42.000
based versus time you know that is really 
the question first of all i’m very clear on  

00:09:42.000 –> 00:09:47.200
who my target market is and i and i think 
for for apps for for technology anything  

00:09:47.760 –> 00:09:52.960
it’s not everybody it has to be very specific so 
i think that’s the first thing is i’m very clear  

00:09:52.960 –> 00:09:58.400
on that because what happens is if i’m having 
an initial conversation and i have a couple of  

00:09:58.400 –> 00:10:03.760
questions that i’ll ask if i if that’s not a right 
fit i can do a couple of things one is i can refer  

00:10:03.760 –> 00:10:10.400
them to somebody else in my network second is i 
can overprice it so you know it’s a nice way of  

00:10:10.400 –> 00:10:16.160
you know whatever well the third is really just 
tell the client it’s really not a fit so you know  

00:10:16.800 –> 00:10:23.120
it it is i think it’s scary for people to you know 
narrow down it’s like it’s like saying a niche you  

00:10:23.120 –> 00:10:26.960
know because there are tools that try to be too 
much you know when i think of apps they try to  

00:10:26.960 –> 00:10:31.280
do too much and it winds up doing a little bit of 
nothing you know so um so that’s the first thing  

00:10:31.280 –> 00:10:37.040
is being really specific about who your audience 
is in my case i work with professional service  

00:10:37.040 –> 00:10:42.480
companies generally revenue to 10 million now i 
do have clients that have more than 10 million  

00:10:42.480 –> 00:10:46.400
i provide different types of services i train 
their teams but the ones that i’m giving them  

00:10:46.400 –> 00:10:51.120
white glove linkedin campaign management generally 
they’re averaging about 5 million in revenue and  

00:10:51.120 –> 00:10:55.280
they’re selling a high ticket professional 
service so this way their acquisition cost  

00:10:55.920 –> 00:11:00.480
and the cost of the leads that i’m bringing in 
you know we understand what those metrics are  

00:11:00.480 –> 00:11:05.280
we understand how long a lot of them it takes you 
know six months eight months 12 months 18 months  

00:11:05.280 –> 00:11:08.800
you know but when the deals are closed 
they’re multi-million dollar lifetime deals  

00:11:08.800 –> 00:11:14.720
so it’s it’s being in it for the long game and 
so you know understanding who your target is and  

00:11:14.720 –> 00:11:19.120
being willing to walk away from something that 
isn’t i don’t know if a software company can do  

00:11:19.120 –> 00:11:24.720
something like that because you’re you’re selling 
in a sense a commodity so you want to position it  

00:11:24.720 –> 00:11:30.240
to the people that are buying it how this is 
different how how will it make my life better  

00:11:30.240 –> 00:11:34.960
what is my desire to end state i’ll tell you 
what somebody could make a lot of money is if  

00:11:34.960 –> 00:11:40.240
you could figure out a crm that plays nicely with 
linkedin because i don’t know any of them that do  

00:11:40.240 –> 00:11:46.000
hubspot does not salesforce does not you know 
less annoying crm does not pipedrive does not  

00:11:46.640 –> 00:11:51.760
nothing can come out of linkedin easily you can 
get it in linkedin but it’s very hard to get  

00:11:51.760 –> 00:11:56.720
things because they turned off the api well and 
that’s very you know that we talked about that  

00:11:56.720 –> 00:12:01.600
earlier it’s you know they are very protective 
about their api you know and and i think that  

00:12:01.600 –> 00:12:05.520
um that’s just one of the places where i feel 
that working with companies we have such an  

00:12:05.520 –> 00:12:15.440
inefficiency in tracking the progress through the 
sales development you know so when it’s first made  

00:12:15.440 –> 00:12:19.920
aware you know you’re first made aware of a lead 
and then you kind of vet that lead and you want  

00:12:19.920 –> 00:12:24.240
to put them into a nurturing system you know not 
not annoying emails but in you know you know in  

00:12:24.240 –> 00:12:29.520
a way on linkedin and then to the point where you 
know they they have a problem you have a solution  

00:12:29.520 –> 00:12:33.360
so do you have a relationship a partner like like 
a actual relationship with a company of linkedin  

00:12:33.360 –> 00:12:38.080
or are you just living on their platform i use 
the tool it’s a tool to me that’s the technology  

00:12:38.080 –> 00:12:43.040
that i use that’s my main technology is linkedin 
um it’s a rented platform it’s it’s one of the  

00:12:43.040 –> 00:12:47.200
differences i use so do you have a tech stack to 
manage it or are you it’s all hand manual like  

00:12:47.200 –> 00:12:52.720
like it’s cause it’s not you know i have i have a 
couple of tools that work i mean i have um there’s  

00:12:52.720 –> 00:12:57.120
an analytics tool that i use everything you have 
to be really careful about the terms of service  

00:12:57.120 –> 00:13:02.640
at linkedin and and they will suspend you in a 
moment and you know none of us can afford to get  

00:13:02.640 –> 00:13:07.520
suspended so um and and that is a serious thing 
when you get put in linkedin jail we just had  

00:13:07.520 –> 00:13:13.200
a talk about that this morning on the uh abound 
social uh mastermind group that i’m in it’s not a  

00:13:13.200 –> 00:13:18.480
fun thing and people do get put in jail even good 
people so um the other stack that i use is i use a  

00:13:18.480 –> 00:13:24.640
content management tool so that’s mainly to help 
my client have visibility and we plan a content  

00:13:24.640 –> 00:13:31.440
calendar another tool that i’ll use is is for 
like recording meetings or or preparing content  

00:13:31.440 –> 00:13:35.920
you know canva was one i mentioned to you i 
love that tool it’s easy to share you know we  

00:13:35.920 –> 00:13:42.640
can create uh branded guidelines things like that 
so those are they’re not as not so much automation  

00:13:42.640 –> 00:13:48.560
because with linkedin it’s harder to automate 
now i do run automation through like platforms  

00:13:48.560 –> 00:13:53.200
like twitter you know i have automated posts that 
are posted six ten times a day whatever retweeting  

00:13:53.200 –> 00:13:56.960
sending responses blah blah blah that’s fine you 
know because that you’re not violating any terms  

00:13:56.960 –> 00:14:01.760
of service um linkedin is is you gotta tread 
lightly you really gotta tread lightly so um  

00:14:01.760 –> 00:14:07.440
i use a tool called monday.com i think you heard 
of that i use black i you know but i got to tell  

00:14:07.440 –> 00:14:12.960
you every client has a different communication 
tool drives me bonkers we use base camp we’re  

00:14:12.960 –> 00:14:20.400
on asana we’re on slack we’re on trello i mean 
it’s like oh my gosh it’s just right yes everyone  

00:14:20.400 –> 00:14:24.960
asks me you know are you okay with asana i mean i 
don’t even care anymore i use google spreadsheets  

00:14:24.960 –> 00:14:30.000
in google docs i use google all the time but now 
all my clients are moving over to microsoft okay  

00:14:30.000 –> 00:14:35.680
so here’s the question so part of your job as 
a digital agency or right is to make the crazy  

00:14:35.680 –> 00:14:40.000
chaotic digital universe bring it under control 
deliver a result for a client that’s basically  

00:14:40.000 –> 00:14:45.600
your job linkedin is chaos because they keep 
fighting the ability to get it under control and  

00:14:45.600 –> 00:14:49.840
you’ve done it how do you manage a client project 
so so you’re not like burning time are you posting  

00:14:49.840 –> 00:14:55.040
manually or you have people manually running it or 
you have any automations like i pulled back on the  

00:14:55.040 –> 00:15:00.960
content there there’s one client was posting like 
three times a day and when i looked at the metrics  

00:15:00.960 –> 00:15:05.680
i said you know what you’re suppressing your reach 
in fact the algorithm was working in reverse it  

00:15:05.680 –> 00:15:11.680
was it was pushing it back and so what i do with 
a new client is we’ll post once a week on their  

00:15:11.680 –> 00:15:16.240
main profile and once a week on the company page 
and then we’ll start to look for opportunities  

00:15:16.240 –> 00:15:23.440
for engagement so i’d say a majority of it is done 
manually you know for tagging and adding some kind  

00:15:23.440 –> 00:15:27.040
you know if you upload a doc you can’t do that 
through the platform you can’t upload native  

00:15:27.040 –> 00:15:31.360
video you know so linkedin has made it really 
hard and if you’re running it through a third  

00:15:31.360 –> 00:15:36.720
party it can tell and sometimes you see the short 
code there and so you know again the algorithm  

00:15:36.720 –> 00:15:43.200
is looking at that and it’s suppressing it so i’m 
looking more for very unique one-on-one engagement  

00:15:43.200 –> 00:15:47.920
the best thing that i can do on linkedin is when 
i run a poll you’ve seen polls on linkedin right  

00:15:47.920 –> 00:15:53.280
they’re so annoying because there’s so many of 
them i i approach it totally different i’ll have  

00:15:53.280 –> 00:15:57.920
done the exercise with a client to figure out 
their their pain what are the problems what are  

00:15:57.920 –> 00:16:03.440
the really deep problems that you are solving and 
then we’ll come up with some really good questions  

00:16:03.440 –> 00:16:07.840
and we’ll run polls based on that and then we’ll 
create content based on the results of the poll  

00:16:07.840 –> 00:16:14.480
and then we’ll use that insight to go back out and 
share to our target audience so again that’s all  

00:16:14.480 –> 00:16:19.520
manual it’s very very manual but i am using 
tools along the way to create the different  

00:16:19.520 –> 00:16:25.760
pieces of that engagement but it’s not given the 
linkedin parameters i guess you could call it  

00:16:25.760 –> 00:16:30.880
i have not found a way to automate it without 
it coming across like oh they’re just pushing  

00:16:30.880 –> 00:16:34.240
this stuff out look you know and there’s 
no engagement yeah i mean that feels very  

00:16:34.880 –> 00:16:40.080
much like i mean linkedin has basically forced 
everyone into like our artisanal bakery you know  

00:16:40.080 –> 00:16:44.560
you’re basically making a wedding cake every 
time it’s like you know how to make a cake but  

00:16:44.560 –> 00:16:51.680
then you have to make it special every single time 
right and it is so you have like some processes in  

00:16:51.680 –> 00:16:56.720
the back of the of the kitchen right you’ve cause 
obviously you have tools like you have canva you  

00:16:56.720 –> 00:17:01.200
have the fondant icing machine you know whatever 
it is but yeah you still haven’t you have to  

00:17:01.200 –> 00:17:06.320
use time i have framework okay i’ve created 
frameworks like i i have i don’t use scripts  

00:17:06.320 –> 00:17:13.200
but i have um what i would call prompts so um and 
i don’t i don’t scrape data because you can get in  

00:17:13.200 –> 00:17:16.880
trouble with scraping data meaning that you could 
scrape the wrong thing like how many times have  

00:17:16.880 –> 00:17:23.120
you gotten something in your inbox said oh i see 
you’re in custom bakery you know and we’d like to  

00:17:23.120 –> 00:17:28.560
you know whatever you know refer people it’s 
like where do you see that on my profile you know  

00:17:28.560 –> 00:17:34.160
when you’re using the bots that are scraping 
stuff it it’s so it can damage your brand so  

00:17:34.160 –> 00:17:40.320
easily because on linkedin your face is attached 
with your outreach so it’s not as anonymous on  

00:17:40.320 –> 00:17:44.080
some of the other platforms you can have you know 
like we talked about these pseudo personalities  

00:17:44.080 –> 00:17:48.800
on linkedin it’s you it should be you you know 
although i got to tell you this and i’m going to  

00:17:48.800 –> 00:17:55.360
say this to the guys listening to this there are 
a lot of um what we would call um fake profiles on  

00:17:55.360 –> 00:18:02.160
linkedin that have these really beautiful women 
as the profile picture and they reach out to  

00:18:02.720 –> 00:18:08.640
you know different people and it’s interesting 
that if you actually look at those profiles and  

00:18:08.640 –> 00:18:12.880
look at their experience and look at you know 
some of the the common telltale signs they’re  

00:18:12.880 –> 00:18:17.520
fake profiles you say well why are they doing 
that well once you’re connected you get access  

00:18:17.520 –> 00:18:21.520
to my network you get to see things on my 
profile if i haven’t shut down my my settings  

00:18:22.240 –> 00:18:26.720
identity theft all kinds of things so be careful 
of pretty faces it’s not always what you think  

00:18:27.760 –> 00:18:33.120
you use hey there’s a tool called either tin i 
or google reverse search reverse image search  

00:18:33.120 –> 00:18:38.320
do that and you’ll be surprised what comes 
up so if you see like a really beautiful face  

00:18:38.320 –> 00:18:42.400
approaching you that wants to connect and says 
something flattering do that and see how many  

00:18:42.400 –> 00:18:48.000
beautiful faces there are tonight the great 
toronto company i would recommend the okay  

00:18:48.000 –> 00:18:54.560
well catfishing aside like linkedin is so valuable 
but so antagonistic to scrape data scraping  

00:18:54.560 –> 00:18:58.560
and we all know they turn off the api we know what 
they lost the lawsuit doesn’t make a difference  

00:18:58.560 –> 00:19:03.760
it doesn’t matter they’re very very useful and no 
one’s going to piss them off if they can avoid it  

00:19:03.760 –> 00:19:08.720
is there a comparable example that’s a much better 
experience has been a much better ecosystem for  

00:19:08.720 –> 00:19:12.880
you to turn into some kind of repeatable process 
you mentioned twitter but i don’t know if there’s  

00:19:12.880 –> 00:19:19.520
other other platforms that are better better than 
linkedin i spend some time on instagram i say  

00:19:19.520 –> 00:19:26.640
personally because it’s it’s where i live my dogs 
and what to eat right and that has been another  

00:19:26.640 –> 00:19:32.480
challenging app because it you know you can’t you 
have to do it on your phone and i’m not a good two  

00:19:32.480 –> 00:19:37.920
finger texter but i’ve noticed that there’s some 
tools now that you can use to make that engagement  

00:19:37.920 –> 00:19:43.280
you know a little bit more streamlined and i think 
that there are a couple of platforms that you can  

00:19:43.280 –> 00:19:48.000
do that with but i would say i would say this 
let me just throw this out there yes linkedin  

00:19:48.000 –> 00:19:55.600
is great use linkedin to find your ideal targets 
okay work real hard to get them offline yeah  

00:19:55.600 –> 00:20:00.320
make that your end game let’s get off of 
linkedin like we are here and have a conversation  

00:20:00.320 –> 00:20:06.000
okay because at that point then you can use some 
of the automated tools you know you really cool  

00:20:06.000 –> 00:20:11.760
newsletter strategy you can have a really great 
website that you’ve optimized and there’s a lot  

00:20:11.760 –> 00:20:17.840
of value there you know you can have live events 
youtube whatever but once you get people off of  

00:20:17.840 –> 00:20:24.640
linkedin and onto your owned media versus rented 
media okay because social media is really rented  

00:20:24.640 –> 00:20:29.360
yeah no matter how you look at it your owned 
media is your email list it’s your website  

00:20:29.360 –> 00:20:33.920
it’s anything that you own and control your 
podcast is owned media okay then there’s  

00:20:33.920 –> 00:20:39.120
earned media which is where you know you have it 
amplified through press and in the media and stuff  

00:20:39.120 –> 00:20:44.000
like that and then there’s pink media you know so 
my goal is really to get people off of linkedin  

00:20:45.520 –> 00:20:49.040
are you also managing the rest of the 
funnel so they get off the site you  

00:20:49.040 –> 00:20:55.360
yes what do you what do you use for that well it 
again every client has different preferences and  

00:20:55.360 –> 00:21:00.160
it depends on the size and the budget we’ve 
used hubspot we’ve used mailchimp we’ve uh  

00:21:01.680 –> 00:21:04.880
do you rely on the client to pick their 
software and you work with their or do you  

00:21:04.880 –> 00:21:08.800
make recommendations it depends on who it is 
each client is a little bit different if i can  

00:21:08.800 –> 00:21:14.320
recommend it then then i’ll go with the ones 
that i think are fit for the size of their uh  

00:21:14.320 –> 00:21:18.400
outreach you know and what they want to get out 
of it yeah i’d say linkedin is my gateway drug  

00:21:18.400 –> 00:21:24.480
i get in through linkedin and then i help them 
see the value of their full suite of marketing  

00:21:24.480 –> 00:21:29.200
outreach you know and i break it down into those 
four areas you know the owned media the social  

00:21:29.200 –> 00:21:34.720
media the earned media and the paid media and 
those are the channels that we work and so it’s  

00:21:34.720 –> 00:21:39.040
like how do you you know like one one thing that 
i do a lot with clients is we look at trade shows  

00:21:39.600 –> 00:21:45.920
and we see where can we present to speak i 
create speaker sheets for them and then we pitch  

00:21:46.480 –> 00:21:50.080
and we say hey we can put together a panel 
you know for this show and we’ve had really  

00:21:50.080 –> 00:21:54.800
good results i’ve also done that with editorial 
calendars for certain publications and said hey  

00:21:54.800 –> 00:22:00.000
my client is expert in in this particular subject 
matter you know they’d like to write a guest  

00:22:00.000 –> 00:22:04.960
column or something like that fantastic you know 
so i look for these opportunities because again  

00:22:04.960 –> 00:22:09.360
what we’re trying to do it’s kind of like you know 
billboard advertising you see it everywhere right  

00:22:09.920 –> 00:22:16.640
i want prospects to see my clients everywhere so 
on social in the trade publications in whatever  

00:22:16.640 –> 00:22:23.200
the the different lanes that they play in so you 
can think of me as the i’m the real estate agent  

00:22:23.200 –> 00:22:28.560
who stages your property so you get more money 
and you get more views you know as opposed to  

00:22:30.320 –> 00:22:34.800
i’m a terrible interviewer because i always have a 
trolling question reason why i ask these questions  

00:22:34.800 –> 00:22:38.880
i know where i’m going so go ahead one of the 
things that you’re doing reminds me of when i  

00:22:38.880 –> 00:22:43.920
was a consulting uh so i was i’m a partnership 
person so before i was applying i left olar  

00:22:43.920 –> 00:22:48.160
uh my third kid i decided to go consulting and i 
you know it was work my network and everyone knew  

00:22:48.160 –> 00:22:51.520
me from partnerships so i go in uh talking 
partnership strategy because that’s what  

00:22:51.520 –> 00:22:55.360
they needed i would say i would be if you’re 
a fractional partnership person blah blah  

00:22:55.360 –> 00:22:58.960
that was never what i did i mean whenever i did 
that the client the projects would end pretty  

00:22:58.960 –> 00:23:02.400
quickly not because i’m bad at it it’s just like 
partnerships is not a priority you’re talking  

00:23:02.400 –> 00:23:06.320
about linkedin strategy everyone wants linkedin 
and that you can get some functional stuff  

00:23:06.320 –> 00:23:10.720
but i imagine like a lot of the there’s a lot 
more work to be done around building out the  

00:23:10.720 –> 00:23:17.200
rest of the pipeline yeah and what i found when 
i was doing partnerships in my case is what what  

00:23:17.200 –> 00:23:22.080
was like the 25 000 part of the engagement was 
when i asked so who’s your customer and like  

00:23:22.080 –> 00:23:28.000
we don’t know oh great fantastic then i can 
run my user research and analytics tracking  

00:23:28.000 –> 00:23:31.680
you know projects you know and then i can do 
report on that and then go interview everyone  

00:23:31.680 –> 00:23:35.120
your staff and get them aligned to the project 
and i just kept doing that over and over again  

00:23:35.120 –> 00:23:38.400
yeah and then they say oh remember the 
partnership thing should you do that okay sure  

00:23:38.400 –> 00:23:42.720
yeah all right it’s interesting well the thing 
you said about the target market i either hear  

00:23:42.720 –> 00:23:49.360
oh everybody’s our target or i hear um no we we’re 
not really sure or they have too many targets but  

00:23:49.360 –> 00:23:55.360
they’re really fragmented so i think and a lot 
of people get stuck at that point you know it’s  

00:23:55.360 –> 00:24:00.720
really understanding who it is that you’re talking 
because then my question is where do they hang out  

00:24:00.720 –> 00:24:07.040
there are certain industries like for instance 
i have a client that’s a a big cpa firm very  

00:24:07.040 –> 00:24:14.400
large cpa firm and they sell a service to smaller 
mid-market cpa firms and what i was astonished to  

00:24:14.400 –> 00:24:20.800
see how many cpa firms are just not active on 
linkedin now email they respond to but linkedin  

00:24:21.520 –> 00:24:25.280
not so much but they’re getting better and i think 
that was one of the things that we’ve just been  

00:24:25.280 –> 00:24:30.560
through this whole paradigm shift of of doing 
things virtually and it’s it’s been good i mean  

00:24:30.560 –> 00:24:34.960
the last two years have been my two best years 
in my company okay so here’s what i’m getting  

00:24:34.960 –> 00:24:41.600
at so you get them on the story of linkedin yeah i 
mean that’s your position i mean you’re the person  

00:24:41.600 –> 00:24:46.160
you’re the person who’s linkedin that’s very clear 
i mean you are the expert i mean i was the expert  

00:24:46.160 –> 00:24:50.800
but then all the real work that that’s like keeps 
them around for a long time is all this back end  

00:24:50.800 –> 00:24:54.720
stuff which is the standard stuff so i mean i 
know you’re you know you’re working with susan  

00:24:54.720 –> 00:24:58.720
or whatever like what what kind of pipeline work 
are you doing at the back end like the rest of the  

00:24:58.720 –> 00:25:03.440
stuff like how much more of it will you implement 
it’s very um and it’s interesting because uh the  

00:25:03.440 –> 00:25:08.400
project that we’re launching next week um we’re 
doing some very specific research and again  

00:25:08.400 –> 00:25:14.560
going back to the client who do you want 
to target first question well we have three  

00:25:15.520 –> 00:25:22.160
cohorts or three groupings of of prospects and 
they’re very different so the messaging and the  

00:25:22.160 –> 00:25:26.480
outreach is different so if we’re building a 
pipeline you know we’re going to think about  

00:25:26.480 –> 00:25:32.240
okay so where’s the quick win who do we get to for 
a quick win that’s generally your existing network  

00:25:32.240 –> 00:25:38.240
there’s a 20 job change every year in anyone’s 
network linkedin put that stat out recently  

00:25:38.800 –> 00:25:43.120
so if you look at who you’re already connected 
with you already have the trust factor because  

00:25:43.120 –> 00:25:46.240
you’re already connected you know whether or 
not you know them it depends on how large your  

00:25:46.240 –> 00:25:51.600
network is but you know if you have that 
credibility then let’s have a conversation  

00:25:51.600 –> 00:25:55.680
sunir oh my gosh i didn’t know you were doing 
appbind i didn’t know you were doing this now  

00:25:55.680 –> 00:25:59.520
let’s catch up and then we start talking and then 
i start thinking oh my gosh i gotta introduce you  

00:25:59.520 –> 00:26:03.440
to so-and-so and you think yeah i gotta introduce 
you to this one and that’s when it happened so  

00:26:03.440 –> 00:26:08.240
that’s the first part of the pipeline the second 
part is now that we’ve identified the three target  

00:26:08.240 –> 00:26:13.760
audiences for this one example we’re going to 
start searching and we do very very detailed  

00:26:13.760 –> 00:26:19.200
boolean searches with inclusions and exclusions 
and we use the sales navigator platform for that  

00:26:19.200 –> 00:26:24.800
that’s a paid version of linkedin and i would 
recommend anyone that’s serious about linkedin  

00:26:25.520 –> 00:26:31.120
sales navigator is really really robust if 
you know how to use it okay so there’s there’s  

00:26:31.120 –> 00:26:36.000
definitely some some bells and whistle there um it 
has to do with how you find people so when we find  

00:26:36.000 –> 00:26:42.000
people then we look for signals and again this 
is all manual and it’s it’s very time consuming  

00:26:42.000 –> 00:26:47.520
but we have to actually look at people’s profiles 
so you can’t automate that you know i can’t have  

00:26:47.520 –> 00:26:54.320
a bot scan profiles you know because what what is 
it looking for is it looking for that pretty face  

00:26:54.320 –> 00:26:59.360
is it looking for you know you know what their 
activity is then the other thing that we do is  

00:26:59.360 –> 00:27:06.000
once we identify that then we look for signals 
to engage with that particular prospect so it’s  

00:27:06.000 –> 00:27:10.800
really a lot of one-on-one and it’s frustrating to 
some people they’re like well can’t you just get  

00:27:10.800 –> 00:27:15.280
me a hundred you know 100 calls it’s like well 
no because i don’t think any of those are going  

00:27:15.280 –> 00:27:20.240
to close but i can get you five or six calls and 
probably the probability is one or two will close  

00:27:21.440 –> 00:27:24.800
so when the client you’re managing client like 
a professional service firm they’re doing a six  

00:27:24.800 –> 00:27:30.240
figure sale or whatever it’s a typical thing right 
so are you doing the like are you actually writing  

00:27:30.240 –> 00:27:35.360
the outbound for them and sending it or are you 
making them do it but we do it together um i  

00:27:35.360 –> 00:27:40.800
will i will formulate something um because i’m 
really good at putting i’m a really good editor  

00:27:40.800 –> 00:27:46.240
but if you i mean the book took me two years um 
so we can talk about how long it takes to write  

00:27:46.240 –> 00:27:52.560
i’m a good editor and and i know what converts and 
the thing is you have to be agile on linkedin so  

00:27:52.560 –> 00:27:57.680
what i’ll do is i’ll do a sample test i’ll say let 
me send this out to five or six 10 15 people let’s  

00:27:57.680 –> 00:28:03.040
see what bites and let’s understand what that 
if it’s working okay now we’re going to expand  

00:28:03.040 –> 00:28:10.240
it um it’s not the same script it’s going to be 
customized to that person that’s receiving it and  

00:28:10.240 –> 00:28:14.400
there’s going to be something that a human finds 
on their profile that we’re going to customize it  

00:28:14.400 –> 00:28:20.480
but we have a process that will work them through 
now if we have a podcast that’s an easy message  

00:28:20.480 –> 00:28:25.280
like hey sunir you know i saw that you’re doing da 
da da i’d love to have you on my show wow you know  

00:28:25.280 –> 00:28:30.240
you’re going to get probably a 40 50 conversion 
on that if you’re targeted right or let’s say  

00:28:30.240 –> 00:28:38.000
that i as a company have a lot of insights because 
i talk to all your competitors so i’d love to give  

00:28:38.000 –> 00:28:44.960
you an executive briefing are you interested oh my 
gosh yes let’s chat so again as long as you don’t  

00:28:44.960 –> 00:28:51.200
deceive people and then go into your sales pitch 
because you don’t have to sell by selling you can  

00:28:51.200 –> 00:28:57.200
sell by educating education and provide like help 
help me be a better buyer of your service teach  

00:28:57.200 –> 00:29:01.600
me what it is how do how do i find the right tech 
stack that’s what i’m getting at here because you  

00:29:01.600 –> 00:29:06.160
mentioned it given what i’m talking about the 
audience here is the cloud software association  

00:29:06.160 –> 00:29:11.040
so the sas companies want to understand also how 
to work with companies like yourselves you said  

00:29:11.040 –> 00:29:15.600
part of it is getting them off linkedin onto 
your own media and then getting them into a  

00:29:15.600 –> 00:29:21.360
separate communications flow are you managing that 
as well and then and then like how much of that do  

00:29:21.360 –> 00:29:27.200
you actually well here’s the thing um the clients 
and like i said each one seems to have a different  

00:29:27.200 –> 00:29:33.360
crm i’m not giving visibility into all of their 
crms okay and that’s for a variety of reasons  

00:29:33.920 –> 00:29:37.200
sometimes it gets out of scope but 
sometimes it’s just because it’s a mess  

00:29:37.760 –> 00:29:42.400
and they’re not keeping track of it they’re not 
updating it so you know that’s why i’ll use google  

00:29:42.400 –> 00:29:46.960
sheets i’ll use monday.com and set up some nice 
flow boards where we can get the visibility we  

00:29:46.960 –> 00:29:52.800
need to say okay we are you know communicating 
with a hundred people how many are responsive  

00:29:53.520 –> 00:29:59.840
out of that batch that’s responsive how many 
are ready for the ask you know because at some  

00:29:59.840 –> 00:30:05.120
point you gotta ask for a call or ask for some 
kind of engagement but it’s not a let’s hop on  

00:30:05.120 –> 00:30:10.400
a call i hate that it’s more like hey i’ve 
got some intel you know about the industry  

00:30:10.400 –> 00:30:16.320
um are you interested in hearing about it you know 
or the podcast or i’m writing a book would love to  

00:30:16.320 –> 00:30:20.640
interview you’re an expert i think stroking ego 
goes a long way again as long as you’re sincere  

00:30:20.640 –> 00:30:24.480
don’t do a bait and switch don’t do that i had 
somebody reach out to me i know he used automation  

00:30:24.480 –> 00:30:29.120
because my first name is lowercase j right so 
that’s my telltale you can’t get around that if  

00:30:29.120 –> 00:30:33.760
you’re automating and so i called him on it and 
he says oh yeah yeah you know whatever so i said  

00:30:33.760 –> 00:30:37.440
all right look i’ll connect with you you gotta 
promise me though you’re not gonna pitch me no  

00:30:37.440 –> 00:30:44.080
slap pitching he said oh no no no no okay cool a 
couple weeks went by then i get a message from his  

00:30:44.080 –> 00:30:49.840
whoever his admin or somebody is and said hi this 
is sally and she’s writing to me in his account  

00:30:50.400 –> 00:30:55.840
number one mistake red flag we have this blah 
blah blah something that has nothing to do with me  

00:30:55.840 –> 00:30:59.680
not even remotely interested i couldn’t even refer 
to anybody obviously didn’t look at my profile  

00:31:00.320 –> 00:31:06.160
and then it had all these links and all this 
crap spam okay and so what i did was i said i  

00:31:06.160 –> 00:31:11.520
wrote back and i screenshot where he said no spam 
no sales pitching and i circled it and i said you  

00:31:11.520 –> 00:31:17.200
just broke a trust you just broke a trust and 
that’s what happens people are just looking  

00:31:17.200 –> 00:31:23.920
for you know that quick fix you you really are in 
danger of damaging your brand by doing that so you  

00:31:23.920 –> 00:31:30.240
have to slow down to hurry up the outcome so there 
are different okay part of this the point of this  

00:31:31.200 –> 00:31:37.440
exercise is to show to people who don’t understand 
how agencies operate what you’re doing yeah and  

00:31:37.440 –> 00:31:40.720
like the last question which we’ll get to in a 
second is someone want to reach out to us well  

00:31:40.720 –> 00:31:44.480
we also ask you if there’s a partner someone wants 
to be a software partner of yours like a part like  

00:31:44.480 –> 00:31:49.200
a software company yeah you know how would they 
communicate with you but like when do you actually  

00:31:49.840 –> 00:31:56.320
need a software partner well i’ll tell you what 
we just did this yesterday um we had to get remote  

00:31:56.320 –> 00:32:01.520
access because here’s the thing about linkedin is 
that um it can detect multiple ips from different  

00:32:01.520 –> 00:32:06.000
locations right so technically you know you really 
shouldn’t be all over the place and you shouldn’t  

00:32:06.000 –> 00:32:12.800
have multiple people logging in so we had to 
set up a server that’s centrally located and  

00:32:12.800 –> 00:32:17.040
we had to work with a couple of tech companies 
that were fabulous i’ll tell you what the chat  

00:32:17.040 –> 00:32:22.080
not having a bot chatting with you but like a 
real live human invaluable so if you’re a tech  

00:32:22.080 –> 00:32:27.360
company and you’re providing a complex service 
like that have educated people on your chat  

00:32:27.360 –> 00:32:33.680
because this guy his name was jeff he was golden 
i said jeff i love you he solved the problem  

00:32:33.680 –> 00:32:39.120
and he also made a 400 sale in the process we 
wound up paying for the software for the year  

00:32:39.120 –> 00:32:43.520
and you know it was a really great experience 
but it took us two hours and we had we were  

00:32:43.520 –> 00:32:48.160
calling in from four different three different 
countries four different locations germany  

00:32:48.160 –> 00:32:54.480
costa rica california new york and somewhere in 
chicago area all calling into this call so we’re  

00:32:54.480 –> 00:32:59.440
all trying to get visibility into one screen on 
the server to access an account and it was it  

00:32:59.440 –> 00:33:05.840
was frustrating but we all left happy and it was 
because the the cloud service provider and and  

00:33:05.840 –> 00:33:10.640
the the technologies that we were using had really 
good people on their side that they could walk us  

00:33:10.640 –> 00:33:15.280
through it and they were available and they were 
responsive they were knowledgeable so i’d say five  

00:33:15.280 –> 00:33:21.120
stars in my book i’ll write them a great review 
highly recommend them and it’s um splashtop is  

00:33:21.120 –> 00:33:24.720
the company i’m talking about i don’t know if you 
heard about them no splash imagine yeah they’re  

00:33:24.720 –> 00:33:31.040
virtual they’re a virtual machine phenomenal 
phenomenon kudo splashtop because they they my  

00:33:31.040 –> 00:33:35.520
hair is gray but they made it a little less gray 
would you now use them for your future clients  

00:33:36.640 –> 00:33:41.280
because we need that kind of environment set up 
because we have you know my my team is remote  

00:33:41.280 –> 00:33:46.080
we’re all over the place and um yeah we have 
to have it that way because a we can’t get  

00:33:46.080 –> 00:33:49.680
flagged every time we log into an account and 
everyone’s logging in for a different reason  

00:33:49.680 –> 00:33:54.640
i’m logging in to look at some of the key metrics 
you know somebody may be logging in to process the  

00:33:54.640 –> 00:33:58.640
invitation somebody may be logging in to share 
content you know but it has to be one central  

00:33:58.640 –> 00:34:03.360
hub and it has to be highly controlled and secure 
so yeah splashtop man they they just really save  

00:34:03.360 –> 00:34:08.720
the day do you have any other like partners like 
that do do i have what are there any other tool  

00:34:08.720 –> 00:34:12.880
vendors that are using it yeah the other one was 
mac stadium the the thing that was challenging is  

00:34:12.880 –> 00:34:18.080
that we were all on different types of equipment 
um i’d say two thirds of the team was on mac and  

00:34:18.080 –> 00:34:23.200
the other were on pcs okay so that was a challenge 
unto itself so we were using mac stadium which is  

00:34:23.200 –> 00:34:29.680
another great tool we’re using mac stadium 
to set up the mac uh interfaces there but um  

00:34:29.680 –> 00:34:35.120
you know again every problem seems to be unique i 
mean i don’t know it’s like i never have the same  

00:34:35.120 –> 00:34:41.760
problem twice it’s usually something i don’t know 
what it is but if you are bespoke you’re a bespoke  

00:34:41.760 –> 00:34:48.720
kind of agency so in this whole story yeah what am 
i trying to get get at so in the in the ecology of  

00:34:48.720 –> 00:34:56.000
agencies you are someone who custom tailors like 
a like a hand experience yeah yeah for each client  

00:34:56.000 –> 00:35:01.520
and so what is your leverage is that you just 
happen to have high outcomes because you know  

00:35:01.520 –> 00:35:05.760
what you’re doing which is i’m honest you 
know and and that’s the the thing like i  

00:35:05.760 –> 00:35:11.040
mean your adult your economic and like like why 
you’re not spending like throwing an hour in for  

00:35:11.040 –> 00:35:14.640
money anymore because you’re generating outcomes 
you know what you’re doing i’m generating outcome  

00:35:14.640 –> 00:35:19.920
and i’m honest with my clients and i’m really good 
at setting expectations and clearly communicating  

00:35:19.920 –> 00:35:25.200
what we’re doing um i think that you know i love 
solving problems i do jigsaw puzzles because i  

00:35:25.200 –> 00:35:30.080
just i love solving problems and so and again 
like i said i wish it was the same problem every  

00:35:30.080 –> 00:35:35.840
time but it usually isn’t it’s usually a lesson 
learned and oh great now we know but you know that  

00:35:35.840 –> 00:35:40.240
situation is different i could have a client that 
has remote locations and i got to get their team  

00:35:40.880 –> 00:35:44.880
into an account you know and that’s a whole 
nother situation you know there’s all kinds  

00:35:44.880 –> 00:35:51.680
especially now with with cyber security and and 
all that you know it’s it’s people really have to  

00:35:51.680 –> 00:35:57.040
um have certain protocols set up so the more i do 
this kind of work the more knowledgeable i get you  

00:35:57.040 –> 00:36:02.560
know which again you know i i wish i had the same 
problems occurring time after time it’s really you  

00:36:02.560 –> 00:36:09.280
know again expectations it’s it’s selling outcome 
i can’t guarantee you any amount of like you’re  

00:36:09.280 –> 00:36:14.800
going to get a million dollars in revenue but i 
can guarantee you that i will activate a certain  

00:36:14.800 –> 00:36:19.600
number of conversations that going to get you to 
that goal based on your average deal size based  

00:36:19.600 –> 00:36:25.040
on the the time frame and what you have to offer 
sometimes it takes me a while to dress you up and  

00:36:25.040 –> 00:36:28.960
get you ready you know because maybe you don’t 
have the right content you know maybe you have  

00:36:28.960 –> 00:36:34.400
sales content that that doesn’t appeal you know 
to the end user maybe you have no content you  

00:36:34.400 –> 00:36:38.560
know i love clients that have a lot of content you 
know because then i can do things with it but you  

00:36:38.560 –> 00:36:44.800
know that’s it and it’s up to you to really close 
it now i’ll coach you on what not to lead with do  

00:36:44.800 –> 00:36:50.000
not lead with your solution because that’s a turn 
off you know i will help my clients through that  

00:36:50.000 –> 00:36:55.360
conversation process but it’s ultimately up to 
them to close the deal so you know but what i try  

00:36:55.360 –> 00:37:01.600
to do is streamline things along the way so that 
they are having really good conversations with the  

00:37:01.600 –> 00:37:07.120
right people that’s what i deliver yeah it is very 
much relationship marketing and sales which is  

00:37:07.920 –> 00:37:12.240
very very which i can talk to you about how i 
would have automated it that was my other idea  

00:37:12.240 –> 00:37:17.120
for a company is a product called heartthrob 
which was a relationship marketing machine but  

00:37:18.000 –> 00:37:23.280
i’ll talk about that later oh i like that i have 
i have crazy metrics including call one called  

00:37:23.280 –> 00:37:28.560
hearts one where uh i used to measure my team 
at fresh books and partnerships on hearts one  

00:37:28.560 –> 00:37:33.440
like i actually drew the heart and put that in 
their kpis and like what the hell it’s like well  

00:37:33.440 –> 00:37:37.440
when people care about you and think about 
you first and then bring you an opportunity  

00:37:37.440 –> 00:37:41.520
for no reason except they like you 
yeah then you won the market you can’t  

00:37:41.520 –> 00:37:45.600
lose yeah when that happens well and that’s the 
thing is when we’re working with third-party  

00:37:45.600 –> 00:37:49.600
tools like linkedin you know it’s a third party 
platform they can make the rules and they can  

00:37:49.600 –> 00:37:55.760
change the rules at any time and so that’s why you 
have to be careful building a strategy on you know  

00:37:55.760 –> 00:38:00.640
another framework so for instance at one point 
you could get emails out of linkedin no problem  

00:38:01.200 –> 00:38:05.120
you know but then i guess with gdpr and 
you know ccpa and all the other stuff  

00:38:05.680 –> 00:38:09.280
that changed but they didn’t tell anybody and 
they just shut that feature off and then all  

00:38:09.280 –> 00:38:13.040
of a sudden everyone was like what happened to 
those emails you actually have to literally opt  

00:38:13.040 –> 00:38:19.440
in to to allow it to be released so yeah there’s 
there’s a lot of um i mean i love the platform  

00:38:19.440 –> 00:38:25.680
still my love affair has been we’ve been hot and 
heavy now since like 2018 me and linkedin i’ve  

00:38:25.680 –> 00:38:31.040
been on the platform since like 20 2009 i joined 
the platform you know but i built a business on  

00:38:31.040 –> 00:38:36.560
it you know since like 2018 maybe maybe a little 
earlier but it still works and i don’t know of  

00:38:36.560 –> 00:38:42.080
another platform they’re about to bring in an 
audio feature which looks a lot like clubhouse  

00:38:42.080 –> 00:38:47.520
but they’re bringing it in now and it’s in beta 
test and it is phenomenal i cannot wait to use it  

00:38:47.520 –> 00:38:52.080
i i really i mean for my clients i think it’s just 
going to give them a stage and another opportunity  

00:38:52.080 –> 00:38:58.640
to engage with their their prospective buyers so 
that’s my story and i’m sticking to it perfect  

00:38:58.640 –> 00:39:04.960
so how do people find you i assume on linkedin 
yeah my name is spelled um very simply j-u-d-i  

00:39:05.920 –> 00:39:12.000
h-a-y-s so judy hayes and what i say to people 
when they want to connect with me do not  

00:39:12.560 –> 00:39:17.040
shoot out one of those generic invitations because 
i won’t accept it so just tell me that you heard  

00:39:17.040 –> 00:39:23.440
me here tell me why why we should connect and i 
love people i love to connect and and if you’d  

00:39:23.440 –> 00:39:30.160
like a copy um a free chapter from my book it’s 
on my website judy hayes.com so j-u-d-i-h-a-y-s  

00:39:30.160 –> 00:39:36.720
dot com and you can download a free chapter and 
the book is also on amazon and what else um yeah  

00:39:36.720 –> 00:39:39.600
let’s connect on linkedin that’s why i always 
tell people you know they’ll reach out to me  

00:39:39.600 –> 00:39:43.680
like on my website oh i want to talk to you it’s 
like let’s connect on linkedin because i want to  

00:39:43.680 –> 00:39:47.840
look at their presence on linkedin and then we 
start from there and i want to see where it goes

00:39:54.400 –> 00:39:56.080
for more great insights on partnerships and  

00:39:56.080 –> 00:40:00.800
software like and subscribe and 
we’ll see you in the next video


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